It’s Sunday, which means it’s time to end the week with an open discussion post!
To keep things civil, there are a few rules:
- Be kind and respectful to one another. Any harassing language will be deleted.
- This is not a place to state what you don’t like about me and/or my blog. Move elsewhere, trolls.
- Video/gif/image embedding is totally fine. Just try to limit yourself to a couple per comment. Otherwise my moderation filter goes crazy.
Each week, I’ll open with a question to get the conversation going. Feel free to chat about anything, but if you’re not sure what to write you can use this question as a starting point.
This week’s question:
The Bias List // K-Pop Reviews & Discussion 
Predictably, I’ll focus on the music side of things. I’d make a heavy investment in great topliners. So much effort goes into K-pop tracks, but the bulk of that focus seems to be on the instrumental and performance (concept, choreo, etc). The melodic core of a song doesn’t often feel as important as it should. There’s no genre that can’t be improved by a shot of well-composed melody, and we need more composers with expertise in that realm.
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No more fanservice!
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That thing in shows where some groups get their songs cut-off in parts while others can perform the whole thing – That’s what I would like to stop. If the overall timing can’t be adjusted and it’s absolutely necessary to cutoff songs, then cut off those who have performed more times here instead of groups coming in for the first time for the specific song lol.
I would love to wave away the whole streaming and voting and award culture as well but… I guess it’s part and parcel and has benefits too 🙂
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I wish more bands would perform with live backing musicians. I know some of the big ones do (e.g. BTS, Blackpink), but some of my favorites seem to not do that. Like, say, Red Velvet – do they perform with backing musicians in concert? The footage I’ve seen on Youtube suggests no. I’d only be interested in seeing a Kpop live performance in person if I knew there’d be a backing band…
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I second this.
Bring back the band!
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Jumping in quickly to say that the recent Stray Kids tour had their shows split into halves where the second half was a live band, which was pretty cool. They even had this little (obviously rehearsed) thing where for one of the songs one of them would turn to the band and hum a tune or say the name of an instrument that they would then start playing one by one until the entire song kicked in. Honestly a pretty fun use of the live band.
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I’d like for it to be illegal for companies to debut anyone under 16, and to debut a group they don’t have the funding for. It’s really heartbreaking seeing hopeful nugu groups disband after less than a year because the company didn’t want to totally invest in them. Luck plays a part, of course, but some of these companies aren’t even trying, but are still promising these kids they’ll hit it big and become famous.
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I second this too. Everyone points to BoA and Taemin of SHINee as an excuse to debut a group mostly of 16 year olds. I just can’t stan 16 year olds unless they are hella talented like BoA and Taemin. They are not. They are extremely well rehearsed and costumed and comfortable in extreme closeout.
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I would second this, but based more on child protection regulations.
Working full time under the age of 16 should not be legal anyway (in my opinion; exceptions aside), but performance is more than full time work – it consumes your entire life and puts you under high-stress consistently. I believe it to be hard on anyone, but ESPECIALLY children. From my background in psychology I firmly believe that being a child or teen star is incredibly harmful for mental health throughout life.
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Pre-teen/Teen years are crucial for development leading into adult life. It’s during those early years when children are learning about.. ..well everything. Who they are as individuals. Coping with new feelings as they relate to emotional states and physical changes. Becoming familiar with the adult world they’re heading into. There’s a LOT of trial and error.
For young trainees/idols, they may as well be locked in sensory deprivation chambers. They’re removed from familial environments and placed in regimental boot camps. Being raised and supervised by individuals that are molding them to serve their needs rather than what’s best for the child. Most children are kept locked up and denied telephones/internet/visitors. During teen years, normal individuals start exploring intimacy and personal relationships. This isn’t just an elected behavior because their minds/bodies are going through a tsunami of new ideas/feelings/sensations.
As it stands now, most of these child trainees/idols will spend those crucial pre-teen/teen years in stasis. By the time they come out from under these agencies, their control, and the contractual obligations, they’ll be spit out into the regular world as adults. However, they’ll be entering this scary new world not as people, but as discarded products.
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I second this but I would also like to include normal teenage stages of acne, pimples etc. Since idols are expected to be perfect at all times (and have super flawless skin), it’s really damaging for minor idols to be in that type of environment while experiencing fluctuating skin conditions and normal everyday things like pimples. I remember when Eunchae of LESSERAFIM got major hate for having acne on her back which is a very normal thing for a teenager to have?!? When I was their age, a pimple was the end of the world. Like a huge volcano on my face which made me super insecure. I can’t even imagine getting hate for having a pimple or acne on my face in an industry that normalizes complete perfection and disregards normal bodily reactions.
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We’ve all been there and it traumatized each and every one of us. One time, I put a huge band-aid on my face and told everyone I was stung by a bee. Not only did I get to disguise the pimple, but I got free sympathy as a bonus. Munchausen syndrome FTW!
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Lol that is next level! I should’ve thought of that!
I feel like at one point in our childhood-adolescent stage we’ve had Munchausen syndrome just to have an excuse to avoid doing gym, to go home early or exaggerate an injury and show off the icepack we got lol
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(hence why we see so many child stars have a ‘ break down’ when they get more freedom imo)
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Normal people spend years acclimating to adult life. Imagine going from 12 to 20 instantly once your leave your agency. Imagine going from a world where everything you do is scripted and planned to suddenly being on a rudderless ship adrift in uncharted waters. Imagine leaving a world where you are idolized to a world where your presence is indistinguishable from total anonymity. Define: soul crushing.
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I don’t know. Michael Jackson was 11 when he first hit #1 on Billboard; Stevie Wonder had a #1 single at 13; Justin Bieber and Ariana Grande were under 16 when they started. There’s many more examples.
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Well in the case of Michael Jackson we know that he had a very tough childhood, and really his whole career was extremely difficult for him too. No matter how many legendary artists we get from debuting them young, it shouldn’t outweigh all the trauma and abuse they go through.
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Just because they put on a good show doesn’t mean there wasn’t tragedy going on backstage. There are countless stories of child performers (actors, singers, etc.) that ended up seriously messed up both during and after the stage lights were shining on them. People don’t realize just how vital those developmental years are to a child. Whether those years belong to the infant, toddler, child, pre-teen, or teen periods, the absence of those cycles will ripple throughout the remainder of that persons life.
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Music. Tear up the standard song formula and start over. Its been played out, the intro – verse – prechorus – chorus – second verse change up – prechorus – chorus – here comes the rap repeat – unearned outro. The pass the parts around parts. The affected voices to soundscape. The over-reliance on the visual and the hypercoordinated dance, the Lore, the overthought multiple costume changes.
The music in kpop music is the last thing they seem to focus on these days.
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No more idols under 18 debuting.
Music wise it would be nice to see more live bands! I’m hoping for Dreamcatcher to perform with their live band for their world tour soon.
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I’d put an end to sexualization of underage idols. Musically, I’d love to hear more songs focused on melody and see more quirky/interesting concepts being tackled. Live bands would become a great feature, as well.
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Honestly, I’d love to create a calmer fan culture in the industry. The way fans from throughout the world put pressure on idols in certain areas (dating, body image, interactions with group members/other idols, etc.) isn’t healthy and makes me sad for a lot of idols.
Musically, I’d love idols to be able to truly “work” an album. While I know idol music promotion cycles operate differently from those done by Western artists, I wish we could see idols push multiple tracks from one project. Companies and idols put a lot of effort into the creative concept of an album, only to promote the title track for a few weeks before moving on to a completely new project and concept.
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make entertainment stop debuting underage girls (or anyone for the matter)
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I would change the contract structure so that companies can’t use training, dorm costs, etc. as an excuse to deny artists pay for everything they release. Under the new rules, the profits from every release must be divided so that the artists receive at least 50% of the earnings.
It’s criminal the way some artists can go multiple years without any pay because the agency wants to be remunerated for their investment. It’s like a satanic pay day loan. All of the things the agencies want the artists to pay back are things the agency imposes “against” the performers. Examples:
– They want to maintain complete control of their lives, so they must live in dorms 24/7, but then they want to be repaid for that expense. Prisoners paying for the bars they’re being kept behind.
– They want strict control of their diets so the agency provides and monitors food intake; at a cost.
– Reimbursement for agency provided services such as vocal training, English lessons, choreographers, stylists, manager salaries, travel and promotion expenses, etc.. Aren’t those things suppose to fall under the agencies own operating expenses?
Virtually every cent the agency pays is expected to be paid back to the agency before an artist receives a penny of everything earned and here’s the kicker.. ..what if the agency are just a bunch of idiots that have no idea what they’re doing? Are there penalties against the agencies for wasting years of the performers lives for mismanagement? How many artists are locked in dungeons because the powers that be are out of money because of “their” poor decision making?
So.. ..no matter what happens, all artists must be willing to hand over no more than half of their earnings to the company to help mitigate costs, but the rest is theirs to spend as they like. Each year after their debut, the artist share increases by 5% up to at least 65% total. Seems fair to me, n’est-ce pas?
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Yes, exploitative contracts!
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music-wise, i’d like to see a change in the round-robin singing in most songs. i get that people are very invested in line distributions and you want to give each member a chance to shine and avoid a situation where you basically have members who are just backup singers. i’m not suggesting everything should be sung in unison. but, especially for big groups, it can be a little frustrating to have each member just singing snippets one after another when there’s an opportunity to get more creative and make the song more satisfying.
otherwise i’ll echo everyone saying no more idols under 16 (or 18).
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So many things, but I guess most of it would boil down to some sort of organising by the artists/workers to improve their working conditions. No underage debuts. No child labour. No more not paying artists for their work, treating them like indentured servants.
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I would stop the mistreatment of idols.
e.g.
Fans thinking idols are theirs to control ( exo chen marriage problem, etc )
or
Companies not treating groups properly ( basic human rights, denying payment for their releases ).
Also, giving idols more freedom to control the music they release. A great example of this going right would be ONEUS. When the company chose what to release, ONEUS didn’t get much attention but when the members were more involved and fought for their choice in Title Tracks ( Luna and Same Scent ), they won in music shows and got more attention from people.
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1. I would like to see fewer comebacks for most artists.
2.I’d like to hear more instrumental personality in the songs
3. I’d like anti-stalking laws to be a lot tougher.
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I’d try to stop loopholes in the industry eg How SM uses extensions on top of the 7 year contract
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I’d want to get rid of ageism in k-pop. I mean, the fact that people feel comfortable calling 30 year olds “hags” is concerning.
P.S. pretty excited about Shohei’s debut!
P.P.S. please SM, don’t mess it up.
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YES YES YES! Ageism is such a huge problem in both the kpop scene, western scene and just in general. 25 isn’t old! 33 isn’t old! And lets stop the double standards of ageism between men and women! Plus it would be nice to have a new idol group that has people born before 2000 because I can’t imagine the countless people who want to debut in a group but are considered “too old”.
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My heart breaks for those who are losing a chance at debut just cause they aren’t “young enough” (they’d much rather debut literal children than grown adults lmao), when it should just be about talent and starpower.
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1. More freedom for idols in creative input and overall career plan
2. No more rap talk
3. Better vocals and live singing
4. Get rid of ageism and obsession with visuals
5. More recognition for groups under non big 3/4 companies
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Okay, this is so random. But seems you have watched The Player Kpop Quest I wonder your opinion on the kq fellaz 2 and also their predebut song Tricky House which is heavily bollywood/Indian inspired.
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I just watched episode four today. Honestly, I’ve been pretty unimpressed all the way around. I just didn’t see much spark or originality throughout the episodes. No one really stood out to me and they seem woefully short on strong vocalists. I like the ideas behind Tricky House but I found the song itself boring and not particularly catchy.
I don’t know… I started watching this show since Sungkyu was a judge but then he had to leave halfway through. I finished out of loyalty but felt increasingly disengaged with each episode. It was a weirdly-edited series. I don’t feel like I got to know the members at all.
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Yeah, I agree with lack of strong vocalists. The best vocalists seem to be at best lead vocal material. It’s a very serious problem especially when the group is really big (10 members), not to mention I had high expectations for vocals since ATEEZ had Jongho, but completely dissappointed. Tricky house was fine for me, but I feel the song would may get backlash for its heavy cultural inspiration. All the contents from them so far, this show and their american training etc seemed to be very short and rushed compared to predebut ATEEZ content. But at least I am not bored by their performances like I do with many kpop groups and I already got my favourite member (Yujun the cutest one, I don’t know if u know him) so yeah I am already attached to them. Producing and creative team should do stellar job, unless the group won’t stand out much imo. The group size is already a turn off for many. Also one of the reason I am rooting for the group is most of them 8/10 are introverts like me lmao.
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