open discussion

Open Discussion (November 13, 2022)

Open DiscussionIt’s Sunday, which means it’s time to end the week with an open discussion post!

To keep things civil, there are a few rules:

  1. Be kind and respectful to one another. Any harassing language will be deleted.
  2. This is not a place to state what you don’t like about me and/or my blog. Move elsewhere, trolls.
  3. Video/gif/image embedding is totally fine. Just try to limit yourself to a couple per comment. Otherwise my moderation filter goes crazy.

Each week, I’ll open with a question to get the conversation going. Feel free to chat about anything, but if you’re not sure what to write you can use this question as a starting point.

This week’s question:

Given changes in collaborators and producers, idol groups can have some wild swings in quality between comebacks. In your opinion, what are some of the biggest drops or rises within an artist’s singles run? In other words, give some examples of when an artist’s music went from amazing to awful or awful to amazing.

47 thoughts on “Open Discussion (November 13, 2022)

  1. MY DROPS:

    Snuper – The Star of Stars > Tulip
    I’m not including “Dear” because it wasn’t promoted. Losing Sweetune was the end of the group, honestly.


    Nine Muses – No Playboy > Figaro
    This is the opposite of Snuper! In this case, gaining Sweetune was all the difference.

    Boyfriend – Boyfriend > Don’t Touch My Girl
    The Sweetune effect again. I sense a pattern here…

    Girl’s Day – Tilt My Head > Nothing Lasts Forever
    Yeah, there was a semi-single In between, but otherwise this goes from gimmicky autotune to immortal classic real quick.


    ACE – Under Cover > Savage > Favorite Boys
    This was just a weird run. Savage sticks out like a sore thumb!

    Liked by 3 people

  2. Everglow’s switch-up from Dun Dun > La Di Da was everything honestly. Not saying Dun Dun was bad, but pretty much no one expected them becoming the group to release one of the best songs of the ‘retro trend’ that year.

    Liked by 7 people

    • Listen, I’ll be the first to admit I’m not exactly a massive ARMY, but their output in mid 2016-early 2017 was extremely commendable. Tons of great stuff. While DNA has actually grown on me with time, I’d definitely pin it as both the moment BTS switched directions and the moment their brand truly exploded — it felt like they’d set a new YouTube record every five minutes that week. It was a fun time to be into K-Pop, at least! The excitement when the MV blew up was palpable even for non-fans.

      Liked by 4 people

  3. It’s gotta be Blackpink for me. I get that it worked (and continues to work) for a lot of people, but As If It’s Your Last to Ddu-Du Ddu-Du still stings. They’ve never really managed to climb up from that low in my mind, even though the occasional song of theirs lands.

    Liked by 6 people

  4. aespa: Black mamba -> Forever* -> Next Level
    EVERGLOW: Adios -> Dum Dum* -> La Di Da* -> First
    NCT: Child -> Glitch Mode* -> Beatbox -> Rain Day* -> Forever Only* -> 2 baddies
    VIVIZ – Bop Bop -> Loveade*
    ITZY: Loco -> Sneakers* -> Boy’s Like You

    *This is a bad song for me

    My risers and fallers


  5. Honestly, going from Butter to Permission to Dance for BTS was a bit jarring. Butter almost made me believe they were going to make the run of English-language singles work, and then it…didn’t.

    Conversely, going from Hot Sauce to Hello Future with NCT Dream was whiplash-inducing in a good way!

    Liked by 3 people

  6. blackpink: their entire 2016-2017 material > now
    the day teddy stopped pulling out old unused 2ne1 demos to give to blackpink was the day their music died….unless u count lovesick girls

    onlyoneof: everything else thrill ride whisper
    this ranking is not so much abt the song itself and more abt the comeback as a whole. now u know damn well that for my ults im gonna write a LONG essay abt this….the chase mini album. complete utter perfection absolutely no skips whatsoever and perfect concept. and imo….the boyziest the boyz has ever boyzed. then we get to thrill ride….now i actually really like thrill ride its not my personal fav tt of theirs but i love it for what it is. its something fresh! something fun! something for the summertime! and while most of the bsides on that mini r kinda mid theres like. 1 or 2 of them that r firmly in my top 10 tbz bsides (merry bad ending im looking at u) and again the concept was incredible. hausofteam NEVER EVER slips. and then maverick……yeah the song was uh. definitely a song but both of the bsides on that mini r in my top 5 tbz bsides like ur telling me they chose maverick for the tt over fucking RUSSIAN ROULETTE???? insane. also they could have turned that whole mv into a full length movie and id watch all of it easily my fav tbz concept next to the stealer. and then. whisper. HOOOOOOOOOOOOOO boy. if i said everything i wanted to say abt how horrendously executed that cb was this paragraph would be at least 50000000x longer than it is now. but im just gonna summarize it right here: (a) the ist merger should have never happened (b) who the fuck makes a group work on their entire mini in the span of 3 WEEKS WHILE ON A WORLD TOUR WITH SICK MEMBERS….like it rlly shows if u listen to the mini (c) ist quite literally got a guy with no creative direction experience whatsoever to do their concept and it ended up basically being this: (d) they couldnt even do a debut showcase bc they hadnt even fully memorized the choreo. like the planning was THAT bad (e) no eric. need i say more
    so yeah in conclusion tbz im getting ur asses out of ist


  7. Kant Daniel: Paranoia to Joy ride (not saying Joy Ride is particularly awful but it’s just meh for me)

    The Boyz: The Stealer to Thrill Ride

    BTS: On to Dynamite

    NCT 127 is a whole rollercoaster in itself

    Stray Kids: Back Door to Wolfgang (that song utterly petrified me)

    Mirae: Killa to Splash (major whiplash)

    TO1: No More X to Drummin (in a good way!)

    Itzy: Loco to Sneakers (genuinely sad)

    There’s probably a lot more 😃

    Liked by 2 people

  8. oh its obvious

    weeekly: after school -> holiday party* -> ven para*

    *bad song

    the concept change was the absolute worst decision any company can make and having The Hub produce the TT made it even worse

    Liked by 2 people

  9. for me gidle’s musical output dropped after hwaa. i tried to like tomboy and nxde but repeat listens made it worse, not better. i still like all their pre-tomboy title tracks with the exception of dumdi dumdi.

    Liked by 3 people

    • I’d agree with you, except: My Bag. Somehow this has become my favorite (G)I-DLE track of all of them. It’s a bit jarring, their change from wide-screen Enya-style girl-crush-adjacent epics, to indie/hip-hop/rock band, but if the songs work… I still don’t know what they are, what kind of band they are, what they’ll do next… Soyeon seems to favor the latter styles, and she seems to be guiding them(?) (not a bad thing, imo).


  10. Alright. Time for me to be hard on some groups I love, I guess.

    EXID: just fell off HARD starting with Me & You.
    Now that I think about it, what was the last Shinsadong Tiger song I’ve truly loved? He hasn’t been visible, and the few things I’ve heard of his lately are terrible. Elly’s involvement in these hurts me.

    At this point I’ll just point out the strange rise-fall-rise situations of groups.

    GFriend: Sunrise -> Fever -> Crossroads
    Fever is the only legitimate dud in their Korean discography, imho. Even other songs I know you don’t love as much (I am a Summer Rain apologist if nothing else) have some merit to them. Fever is just… no.

    A.C.E: Under Cover -> Savage -> Favorite Boys
    Already pointed out by Nick.

    ONF: Why -> Sukhumvit Swimming -> Beautiful Beautiful
    I wish I liked Stupid Swimming but I can’t. It’s literally the only ONF title I cannot get into. The two songs sandwiching it are amazing, though.

    CLC: Pepe -> Like -> … -> Hobgoblin
    Honestly I can’t with this group lmfao. I love them, and in the later half of their career they finally found some consistency. But dear god some of their early title tracks are dreadful. How do you go from Pepe to… everything between that and Hobgoblin?

    (I think Hobgoblin is great and everything after that is gravy, even Me is a bit of a misstep but nothing as dramatic as some of their more questionable early-career singles.)

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Taemin: Criminal -> Idea -> Advice

    Most of his releases prior to 2020 were consistent in music quality. “Criminal” was a classic! It’s a shame that he then released dull tracks. Those tracks are a big drop in music quality, especially when they are compared to “Criminal” and his work pre-2020.

    Liked by 2 people

  12. Weeekly’s change wase sad… from After School to Ven Para is just… sad. And I agree with all the comments on TBZ 😭 Kingdom Come was the last good thing from them for me… Maverick was tolerable but everything else is so horrible to me – Whisper and She’s the Boss especially make me give up all hope on them.

    Now for good : CRAVITY!! Like wow!! From My Turn (which I don’t actually hate but the growth after that!) and Gas Pedal (Nope. I don’t like it lol) to Adrenaline and Party Rock!! If somebody told me an year or two back Cravity would be a group that brings me immense joy I would have laughed… and now the joke’s on me. Their latest output fits them like a glove and I hope they stick to it.

    Liked by 5 people

  13. Hey all, it’s been a minute, huh? I spent the morning tagging title tracks from the last couple of months, and yikes. My new unrated playlist has 810 songs in it and 114 of those are title tracks.

    The only titles that have stuck in my mind from the last couple of months are Antifragile, Kwon Eunbi’s Underwater, and PINK FANTASY’s Get Out. I had forgotten about VolKno, which I unsurprisingly like a lot, and Last Man Standing, which I didn’t like as much as I hoped after reading the review here, but still like.

    It was fun seeing all the comments on Nxde – I couldn’t find it in my library but had the rest of the EP. It took a minute to remember that I disliked it SO MUCH I deleted it almost immediately.

    Anyhow, guess I’ll start listening and rating if I want to put together a year-end list. I have no idea if I’ll make it though all those b-sides, but I already know the winner because it’s Cyberpunk because OF COURSE IT IS and I’m seeing it live in three days and looking forward to screaming my damn head off. Fingers crossed for more wardrobe malfunctions.

    Liked by 2 people

  14. Apink were an excellent group, but I think when B.E.P. entered the picture – 7 years after they debuted! – they became a truly great one, with an exciting upgrade in sophistication that suits their maturity as a band. It began in 2018 with I’m So Sick, and continues to today: %% (Eung Eung), Dumhdurum, & Dilemma. That’s a great run of singles, imo. (Plus BEP has turned out 6 or 7 brilliant STAYC singles in the same period.)

    Liked by 2 people

  15. To me the biggest glowup maybe ever is Stellar. Probably the worst debut song maybe ever (Rocket Girl), then two slightly better songs followed by a string of some of the best songs of all time and then disbandement

    Liked by 3 people

  16. As a relative newbie, I know it’s controversial, but the
    Dem Jointz songs on NCT 127’s 2 Baddies were terrific and I think he’s had a really good run with them. (Yes, I liked Sticker, Kick It, and Punch.)
    Whoever is producing TAN these days needs to get back to the feel of the first EP. We never got the second part of Fix youPt1 and the world is poorer for it.
    Also, please let Kingdom’s Mujin and Dann and other members contribute to a title track. Every b-side I like of theirs has one or both of them contributing.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. I guess this is difficult on fans of the group, because it felt like everyone “switched up on them”, but Weeekly going into Ven Para was just … absurdity. A concept that doesn’t fit the girls accompanied by one of the worst attempts at a “space girl crush” song I’ve ever heard. I know that Holiday Party wasn’t that liked either, but I prefered it over Ven Para.
    Also, as a fan of ONEUS, I feel obligated to complain about their company wanting to push “versatility” on them when the versatile songs in question are No Diggity and Bring It On, that not even the members liked. I enjoy ND, but I can tell why other people don’t.
    Going No Diggity to Black Mirror to LUNA to Bring It On to Same Scent was a particularly crazy run. All the bsides were pretty great tho.

    Also, just to state that I have a quite unpopular opinion: Maniac and Case 143 have to be some of my favorite Stray Kids songs ever. I think they had a lot of good music on their early days, but I like the newer titles better. Idk, I think the whole “I don’t take myself seriously” vibe they exude makes me enjoy them better.

    ALSO! Predicting a turn to better: Verivery will release their first cute title track in years tomorrow, and I have big expectations. I loved the songs on their edgy era, but yet again I don’t think it’s what they should be doing nor what fits them best. Still bummed it’s just a single album, but I’m hoping it’s another ‘O’ > ‘Undercover’ where the single is just a build-up for a full one. 🤞🏻

    Liked by 1 person

  18. I think one group that has had a rocky start is TAN. Their debut was great, the first comeback was okay, the one after that was good but their recent one… 🥶. The song could’ve been sooo much better than it was. Also that album cover could’ve been made by a twelve year old (and that’s offensive to twelve year olds because they could make anything better than whatever that was.)

    Liked by 1 person

  19. ykw im doing one again


    woo!ah! (bad) -> bad girl (alright) -> i dont miss u (good) -> purple (awful) -> catch the stars (amazing) -> danger (shit) -> rollercoaster (amazing hopefully)

    so you could say woo!ah’s discography has been a, ya know, rollercoaster

    Liked by 1 person

    • Got into woo!ah! lately and I appear to be one of their only listeners who actually loves Danger lol. Very satisfying vocals, and the weird percussive bassline > lush synth chords transition in the chorus makes me go feral

      Also the little “wooah!” cheer before the EPIC post-chorus is so charming. What songs have a post-chorus these days???


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